XtremeCamera

Okay, so this was the moment I knew, I just knew, that we will going to experience something awful in the months ahead; One of our Admins wrote a blog piece about how great Macs were, and how (in his opinion) it was superior to Windows. He loves his Macs, as do we all, and wrote about all the wonderful things he loves about his workflow with photography and the Mac. The response from a certain group of members were this; They were offended, they were angry, they thought it unfair, they demanded an apology to PC users. I mean, seriously, WTF??? I was shocked, shocked, when I read these comments.

What? You can’t write about something without giving its competition equal time? Good lord, even as I type this today I shutter in disbelief. I told the other four Admins that this was a prologue of things to come. Boy was I right.

So, one day, out of the blue, we became a horrendous place to be. Didn’t you know that? Can’t you tell by now that we are an elitist group of photographers? Snobs! Photographers that look down their ample noses at anyone and everyone that use a Point And Shoot digital camera? (Oh the horror!) You didn’t know that?

Oh, I see.

But wait.

Despite that huge blog post we wrote a few months back about all the great images we’ve seen that were shot with POINT AND SHOOT CAMERAS, the many times we’ve said its the photographer, NOT the camera didn’t mean a thing? Lies, all lies. Why just ask anyone. No no, I don’t mean those that actually research any rumor before forming an opinion, or jump to conclusion at the slightest intelligent remark, I mean those people that once they hear a rumor it becomes an iron-clad fact in their head and nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever change their mind. You know, like the extreme left or the extreme right in the political field. Yes, now you get it.

Did you also know that we are a place that discriminates against “sweet, little old ladies”, (not my words, but an ex-member’s) that we create rules out of thin air, and then goes back and looks for people who have retroactively violated them. And then, to be even more horrendous, the ones we find we suspend, threaten, and bad-mouth. What was that? You didn’t know? Oh my, just read some of the comments to our Blog posts or some of the threads in our forum. No no, it doesn’t matter what was said in the comments during May and June of this year, just read the comments that have been made AFTER we suspended a couple of members. History of XtremeCamera began the day we suspended members. XtremeCamera, and what was written by Admins and members alike, did not exist BEFORE the suspensions… only after… Yea, now you get it. See? We are just awful people. And elitist, don’t forget elitist.

If someone told me about a place like that my first reaction would be to consider the source. Who was telling me this stuff? I sure wouldn’t make any public pronouncements until I investigated it. I damn well know I wouldn’t violate the laws of my state by publishing the entire contents of an email sent to me by someone else. Can’t you just see and hear a conversation like this one below:

Person A; “Hey, look what I just received! An email from XtremeCamera!”

Person B: “No! Wicked! I can’t believe it! Can I read it?”

Person A: “Well, what do you think we should do? Oh, yes, by all means, read it.”

Person B: ” I know, give it to ME and I’ll post it on my gossip site. This should really get the flames going!”

Person A: “Well, alright then! You sure this isn’t against the law?”

Person B: “Against the law? Are you kidding me? Who cares about the law, this is juicy gossip!”

Person A: “Well, okay then. But if you get in trouble I’m going to tell him I don’t even have a sister!”

Person B: :”Whatever, I’ll finally make my mark in the gutter. Where all those with no lives, no ambitions, no values, no respect, no judgement, and no brains live and breed! This is going to ROCK!”

Person A: “Oh. Oh. Oh. I bet that if you follow it up with indigent comments, twist the words around, you could get a whole lot of people to think the complete opposite of what the truth is! I bet you could get everybody’s panties in a twist!”

Person B: “I’m about to change so many lives!”

Person A: “Well, empty lives anyway”

Person B: ” Yea, empty lives”

Person A: “yea”

Person B: “yea”

And, I certainly wouldn’t take the word of someone that was suspended without first looking into it. But, that’s just me. Someone that doesn’t have a MySpace, FaceBook, or lives on the internet and adopts a virtual personality. Nope, I’m just me. I think, I investigate, I make my own decisions. On the internet I hear I’m quite novel. How sad.

Hmmm…. For some people the truth is never as interesting as lies, innuendo, and gossip. What’s so intriguing about someone telling the truth when you can add a whole bunch of lies to it, twist meaning, and (this is a good one) take things out of context to make them much more palatable to people with average IQ’s. Want proof? Watch NBC news sometime. Watch ANY reality show. Or better yet, try telling someone something that is absolutely true and watch them yawn, mumble, excuse themselves because “The Moment of Truth” is about to start on their lifeblood, the TV. Next time you see that person, tell them lies, gossip it up some, twist the context, and then watch them practically drool over your every word. Now you get it. I mean, seriously people, do you want to be known as a truth-teller or a good storyteller? Big difference. Yes indeed.

So, you want an example I suppose? You’re not going to take just MY word for this, right? Okay, let’s check this forum thread out:

http://www.xtremecamera.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=66

Here’s an excerpt from an ex-member I think you might find enlightening:

Date May 2, 2008: “i will wait but alot of the fun was being able to rate the pictures…..and unfortunately i am one of the cheesy people that like to say “fantastic, awesome and great picture….or beautiful shot….and as fun as it is to look and comment the funnest part is giving the stars…..i really love this site but if i cant rate then that means i really cant play that much….its ok to give comments but if you have nothing to go with it then it takes away from my fun…...this is of course only my opinion and im sure you guys have some good stuff up your sleeves…..”

Hmm, seems to me that this ex-member fully understood that “fantastic, awesome and great picture….or beautiful shot….” isn’t a critique. Not to mention the awful grammar and the pet-peeve of mine, people using alot instead of A LOT. It’s TWO words people! Anyway, since this excerpt from the forum was written two months ago I don’t suppose one could really say that this person didn’t know that the drive-by comments and the handing out of stars in recent days was something she was unaware of, now could one? Nah, I thought not.

And then a reply from an Admin:

Dated: May 2, 2008: “A critique doesn’t have to be about pointing out the wrongs, you can just as easily point out the good in a photo. Critiques are about justification for a rating and education, not just making a critical statement for the sake of being a critic. Also, a point I think many are failing to see, you don’t have to write a critique, this isn’t a requirement for being a member, and if you feel like you either need to learn more about photography first or just aren’t into critiquing someone’s work then simply post a comment, that verbal pat-on-the-back.

Just ask yourself a simple question, would you want someone to rate your photo a 5-star without justification, and if so would you tolerate someone else doing the same thing if they rated it a 1-star?”

Makes sense to me, does it to you?

Oh my, look, yet another explanation about her lack of respect for the rules of critiquing.

Dated May 2, 2008 “i just believe this site is getting maybe a bit to complex for me…...i dont care if someone rates my photo a 1 or a 5 without an explanation….the 1 means they just didnt care for it all that much and what makes me think that their critique or suggestion was what i was after?...or will be any better than the pic i posted….after all it is just their opinion…...just seems like we are being forced to critique if we want to give a star or even receive one…...and giving and getting the stars was alot of the fun and good feeling behind your work…...”

Yep, that’s right lady. You’re being FORCED to offer a proper critique before you can award stars. Hmm, you seem to have understood this 2 months ago.

Well now, this member surely doesn’t want to follow the rules for critiques, or she simply has a memory problem. This member is like a Third Grader looking for that Star on the corner of that picture of a stick figure flying the kite. Turns out that no matter how many times it was explained, no matter how many times she was warned in messages and email, she still insists that XtremeCamera is just not going to be any fun. So, what does do?

Why, she goes ahead and makes drive-by comments and rates photos (handing out stars like the Third Grade Teacher) with the ratings system… two months after being warned repeatedly. But, according to some, we never warned anyone of anything. Bad Bad!

There are many such examples in the forum if people take the time to read them.

Let’s switch gears for a moment and talk about something else.

There has always been a limit on the number of uploads a free member can upload to the Member Gallery. One ex-member thought that he/she was above the rules, and everyone else, for that matter. This ex-member was sent a direct message; this was it:

Your actions today (outlined below) has resulted in your membership being in violation of our Terms of Service (TOS). You must rectify this violation immediately.

XtremeCamera has recently changed its TOS to reflect several new Rules, one of which is the number of photos any member can upload to the Member Gallery. Free and Premium members are now restricted to two (2) photos per day. You currently have nine (9) photos in the Member Gallery, all of which were uploaded today. You are seven (7) photos over the limit. You must remove all but two (2) of them upon receipt of this message.

Failure to remove the photos in question will result in your membership being suspended for 30 days. If this happens again your membership will be terminated as is our right as outlined in the TOS.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Steven McBride

Operations Admin

You see, this member is directly responsible for XtremeCamera recoding the Edit Photo page. Before this member so flagraently blew the rules off, a member could upload to their private gallery and then, through the Edit Photo page, change it to the Member Gallery. This member did this with 9 photos on a single day, 2 days after she was told that there was a new limit to the Member Gallery daily uploads. We call this a perfect example of “Borderline Personality Disorder” Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

To which this member replied:

I would like to see if I can Get a refund on the money I payed for this site I pay to be able to have more and I am now seeing there is not much difference in being a paid member or free If I recive a refund I wll deletate my account here, I am very unhappy and its sad I was so excited and now with these changes Its horrible, If I can not get a refund,I will keep my gallery, Please help to decide the best way to go I feel wronged. Mutiple uploader for two photos a day? PLEASE let me no I really love the site just grrr, Why should I pay when I could of just staye free.?

She certainly can’t spell, or form a cogent sentence. Worse, she never DID remove those extra photos. We had to do it.

Or how about this exchange with the same member:

Admin Message: I noticed you changed your status in your profile to Pro. You need to change it back to Amateur. A pro is someone that makes a living with their photography and you have indicated that you were just starting to learn about photography.

I think its great that you have the ambition to be a professional photographer, and I am sure that someday you will be if you continue to learn and practice. But as it stands today, we must enforce the practice of stating your true status in your profile.

Thank you for your prompt attention in this matter. Should you have any questions please message our onsite Admin, jmanzione. I do not log in often so chances are any concerns you might have will receive a much quicker response if sent to the onsite Admin.

To which this was the reply we received back:

I do not feel I am an amateur either since I have made money for my photos I do not think I am pro but to state amateur don’t seem right either, I likes it better when I did not have to choose. Thats when I paid to upgrade. I really disagree with this change.

A real cooperative member, yes? And did she change it to Amateur? Why, that would be a big NO. Again, we had to do it. Then, she made such a fuss over it our head Admin, John Manzione, changed the policy to suit HER. That’s TWICE we changed the code in our site to accommodate this member. But, according to others, what we did was right out of the blue. Uh, yea, right.

But wait, there is more. How about a couple of members contriving to ramp up their own ratings? Like this;

From the Admin on duty:

Please explain to me how the following words constitute a critique, and how that critique could be found helpful.

“I love this shot, but then again…I was there was it was shot”

And then, XXXX rewards this image with 5 stars. Then, you find this “critique” helpful and reward him back for it.

All this shows, to me anyway, is a complete lack of respect for XtremeCamera and a lack of respect for those members that are trying to learn more about their passion, learn more about what makes a good critique, and for those members that are adapting to the changes here without trying to find a way to circumvent them.

Some members will need some handholding during this transition, I did not think you and XXXX would be two of them.

To which a reply was sent back to the Admin:

I apologize for my lapse in judgment. Unfortunately, when you allow friends/family to be able to “help each other out”, this type of thing is going to happen. I can assure you that XXXX and I will be the least of the problems with this new system (which I do happen to like, by the way). The site we, and quite a few other members who joined around the same time, came from, is all about voting for your friends, instead of a quality image. I have an idea that you will see a lot of “helpful critiques” that really aren’t so helpful, but I promise you it won’t be me doing it again.

And the other party, Mr. XXXX (because I respect their privacy, what a concept?) when presented with the same message, replied thusly;

Shall not happen again, have been away from the site and need to step up.

Forgive me.

Which, by the way, we did forgive and move on. I believe both of them are still members here (at least as I write this) And of course, up until a day or two ago, this was happening more and more and more with other members.

So, you see, for some people the truth is boring, lies and innuendo is much more exciting.

And this, readers, barely scratches the surface. If I were to publish all the instances of this type of behavior I would have to publish a book. For instance, looking through the database we came across at least 400 messages between members begging for votes, comments and critiques. I believe its called “Spamming”. Personally, upon seeing message after message after message, I was beginning to think we might be better off vetting our memberships and making the site an “Invitation Only”. Why would anyone solicit others for ratings? Why can they not be proud of their work without having to be awarded stars from others?

This is the typical spam that is going around, or was anyway:

If ya get a chance up;oaded two today here: (16 times)
Posted some new shots I fya wouldn’t mind looking (12 times)
If ya get a sec check out what I uploaded to the contest gallery (21 times)
If ya get a minute I posted some new shots lookingfor some ideas. (13 times)
i really appreciate your critiques and comments…seems them stars are hard to get now a days (22 times)

and it goes on and on and on. Oh, and I really love this one, it says it all in one sentence.

“One thing to remember… once you learn the rules, rules were meant to be broken, in certain situations ;) “

Yea, okay.

So, what do we, as Admins of a photo site that has every intention of building up one of the only true resources for the budding and professional photographers that want to become better, or help others become better photographers, do about all this? Do we simply open the floodgates and let anyone in, or have members agree to a 60 day probation? Or do we really go to an invitation only system? At this stage, I really don’t know.

In the interim, the only answer was to take decisive steps to stop the behavior. Take the two worst violators of the rules, the ones that showed the most contempt for the rules and guidelines, not just for comments and critiques, but the other rules as well, and suspend them for 30 days. Naturally, we could have terminated the memberships, our TOS state that clearly. But, by a majority vote the Admins decided that should two members be suspended, others warned, then it might be enough to make it clear that if you wanted to turn XtremeCamera into a social networking site it wasn’t going to happen.

As the fallout continues there has been some very positive changes. It seems like all the members that would rather believe in rumors without investigating, or who maybe thought they were next on the list to be suspended, have either asked us to cancel their membership or they cancelled it themselves. Hey, saved us a lot of work, you know?

As our head Admin has stated before, XtremeCamera would rather have 100 great members, amateur and pro alike, who want to inspire or be inspired, who wish to share what they know, or absorb what others know, who respect other members, do not solicit or spam members, and who understand that social networking is best left to other sites, then to have 10,000 members like the ones we just lost. That cannot be any more true today than it was in 2004 when development began.

We do not depend on advertising revenue, so pageviews do not matter. And now that our site has calmed down, now that the members who remain seem to be the members we are looking for, we can begin to devote our time to publishing great tutorials (you’ve have to be logged in to read them), we can get our podcast and video podcast up and running, we can even build better features, and we can begin to offer our members what they came here to get; information and resources on how to become an even better photographer than they already are. That’s the mission, that’s where we’re headed, and its about time.

Lastly, I hope this is the last word we hear on this subject. Its been a frustrating time for everyone and its time to move on and do what we came here to do. With the help of our current and future members we’ll do just fine.

Thank you for reading this ridiculously long blog post. Oh, and should anyone make the decision that this blog post is full of lies, well, we have the original database, where every word type by the members reside. Think about it before you all decide to say it never happened.

Julia Barnes
Admin
XtremeCamera